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Thanks to Hidedeho4 for videos |
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Thanks to Sash for Transcripts |
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The video and transcript for the second part of this interview
can be viewed
here
Video by
HiDeHo4 |
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Interview starts at approx 0:18
Jim Bohannon: Hello there and good evening and welcome to the Jim
Bohannon show from Westwood One Radio. We find that Pat Brown is making
a return visit to talk about her latest book; the different slide is
that you may have trouble buying it. It’s an ebook called ‘Profile of
the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann’. Recently you could buy it from
amazon.com but, er, no more. We understand that the book is available
from Barnes & Noble online, with their initials BN.com for their Nook,
enook reader. Pat Brown, er, two stories who I guess...number one: The
story of Madeleine McCann. And number two: the story of you and er, and
er amazon. Er look, for those, let’s just start at the beginning, what
is the Profile of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann all about, let’s
assume the people here have forgotten who exactly Madeleine McCann is.
Pat Brown: Right, er, Madeleine McCann was a little three year
old girl who was on vacation with her parents, erm, Gerry and Kate
McCann and their friends, seven of them, and there were also the brother
and sister who were two years old and er, the McCanns and friends had a
habit of leaving the children unattended in their vacation apartments
while they went over to the bar restaurant for a few hours every evening
and, the last evening, Madeleine disappeared and she has not been seen
since, it’s been four years now and no one knows what happened to
Madeleine.
Jim Bohannon: now you put together er, an ebook, a profile of the
disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Before we get into all that you have
put forward, deposit about the disappearance, what happened with Amazon?
Pat Brown: Well, what happened was... there’s a kind of
controversy going on concerning the McCanns over the four years, er the
controversy is: Did the McCanns have anything to do with the
disappearance of their daughter or was the child abducted by some
predator or child sex ring or somebody who wanted a little child. Er,
there’s two camps over this and there are a lot of suspicious
circumstances, an abduction was never proved to have happened, so the
McCanns became suspects in Portugal, what is called Arguidos, and then
they left Portugal and since then they’ve been looking for their
daughter, they, they, they established a fund to search for their
daughter and this was all going quite well, er but when people started
speaking up saying, you know, some of us actually think that the parents
might be involved, they were shut down because the McCanns hired Carter
Ruck, which is like the biggest libel solicitors in, I don’t...maybe the
whole world, but certainly in Britain, and they would sort of stick this
law firm on anybody who said, hey you know, I question whether they
could be involved. They sued the detective on the case when he put his
book out and got an injunction to get it off the market and so people
have stopped speaking out whether, you know, about their opinions
because they’re afraid of Cater Ruck, they’re going to get sued and so
the media has no longer said anything negative about the McCanns, they
never...they question nothing any more er, and so Kate just put out her
book called ‘Madeleine’ and after I read her book I decided I would do
what people wanted me to and put out a profile of the disappearance of
Madeleine McCann and, put out a theory of what I think happened based on
the evidence that exists. And I did so and about five weeks after I put
it up on Amazon it vanished and it vanished off of amazon.com and
amazon.co.uk, that’s the British one, and of, out of Germay as well. So
it vanished everywhere and people said, what happened to your, your,
your er profile, your book? And so I wrote to Amazon and said what
happened? Where’d it go? And they said they took it off for legal
conflicts and I said well what legal conflicts are you talking about,
and they said, well we need you to change the title and all the contents
[both laugh]
Jim Bohannon: Otherwise it’s just what we were looking for
Pat Brown: Exactly and so, okay, er do you want to explain this a
little further? And then sent me the letter that said they had been
received a er letter from Carter Ruck, the solicitors of Gerry and Kat
McCann, who said I had libelled their clients and therefore until we
worked it out, the McCanns and I, and agreed that the book was not
libellous they were no longer going to sell it. So that’s when it
disappeared off of the market
Jim Bohannon: Wow!
Pat Brown: yeah! That’s rather interesting.
Jim Bohannon: You know, I was trying to think of another instance
of something similar to this and I’m at a loss, I er, I don’t really
know of anything quite like this.
Pat Brown: Yeah, well I think this is kind of a new problem with
the sub publishing world, now I have two other books on the market
published through...the last one came through Hyperion Voice and when I
wrote that one which is called the Profile of
My Life Hunting Serial Killers and Psychopaths, came out in 2010, I
did a lot of cases in that book and before they published it, their
lawyers went through it with a fine toothcomb, they made me turn over
all my files so that they made sure that the book was acceptable and
couldn’t risk...everybody can be sued over it... so when Amazon saw that
they already had Hyperion Voice saying it’s an okay book because our
lawyers have already been through it, besides, you’re not going to get
sued, we will. But with self publishing, where’s the gate keeper? So
Amazon’s like ha, you know, your not, nobody’s looked over this book,
there’s no publisher except you so quite frankly we’re running a
business and we don’t want to take a chance with Carter Ruck. So it’s
kinda funny people say when Cater Ruck comes after you, you’ve been ‘Carter-Rucked.’
Jim Bohannon: Interesting, so in this day and age what you’re
essentially saying is that, that as we enter this whole new brave new
world of the non ‘Gate Keepers’ that if you’ve got enough money and
enough lawyers and a willingness to throw your weight around that you
can essentially shut down your critics.
Pat Brown: Exactly and that’s what...that’s what’s been happening
with the McCanns, they’ve effectively shut down anybody with an opinion
that they do not like. And they don’t like mine.
Jim Bohannon: I er, I must tell you that I got an email.
Pat Brown: Yes you did, I’m sure
Jim Bohannon: I did, with a dot uk address attached to it...errrr...
Pat Brown: Mmm?
Jim Bohannon: [quoting part of the email]: “ ...Please be
aware that the ebook Ms Brown is promoting is full of misinformation,
contradictions and an imagined scenario. Ms Brown has a well known
dislike of the McCanns, particularly Kate McCann, and for the past four
years has made regular inappropriate and acidic comments about them on
social networking sites”
Pat Brown: Well that’s actually accurate. Sometimes you can’t
disagree with people who hate you. But yes, I have blogged for four
years. I have a blog called the
Daily Profiler, it’s not very daily any more because I’m too busy
but it’s more a monthly profiler now but I haven’t changed the name, er
but I often talk about cases like I do when I do television, I do
commentary, and I analyse different cases and I try to stick with: look
at the evidence and here’s what I’m thinking and I try to put it, I
always say it’s a theory, this is not fact, this is theory which is what
all profiling is and it doesn’t say anybody’s guilty of anything. Yes, I
have been fairly critical because from the very beginning there was
something rather peculiar about the story and of course it starts with
leaving three little children alone in an apartment unattended, which is
called child neglect, so it’s kind of hard to be nice about that in my
opinion.
Jim Bohannon: Well, it, it is hard I suppose to do that ...er...among
other things this email er they claim that your book is done in an
effort to convince people that Madeleine is dead
Pat Brown: Well I...
Jim Bohannon: What are the odds? What are the odds?
Pat Brown: Well this is kinda funny because on a very sad way,
one of the reasons Kate McCann supposedly sues people is because she
says no one has the right to say Madeleine is dead because that keeps
people from looking for her, which sounds like, you know, if you’re a
mother you can sorta see where she’s coming from. But the fact is, the
chances of Madeleine being alive – even if she didn’t die of an accident
in the apartment which is what the police believe and what I think the
evidence lends to, er, she would likely be dead because if she was
abducted by somebody it would be like a sex predator, a child sex
predator and they usually kill a child within an hour, and the concept
that a child is going to be targeted to go into a sex ring and be taken
around the world is not very likely, and on top of it the McCanns put
together a campaign which featured her... the eye defect that Madeleine
has... which is called a coloboma, which is, you know which is kind of a
defect in the eye, a dark line coming out of the pupil. They put that as
part of their publicity, well you know if I were a child kidnapper and I
had this kid with this very obvious defect I’d get rid of the child very
quickly because she could be identified so I ...
Jim Bohannon: Very easily...
Pat Brown: If she wasn’t dead, you’re going to make her dead by
doing that.
End of Part One...Continued in Part two. |
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Video and transcript to the first part of
this interview can be viewed
here
Many thanks to
HiDeHo4 for the video |
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Starts at approx 0:16
Jim Bohannon: Welcome back, this is the Jim Bohannon show, we’re
talking with Pat Brown, she’s the founder of the
Pat Brown profiling agency online at patbrownprofiling.com and for
those who haven’t heard your previous appearances on this and many other
programs er what is it that you do?
Pat Brown: Well er, my main job is to do criminal profiling which
I look at cold cases and I do crime reconstruction and deter...try to
determine what might have happened and that’s what the police can use as
a lead or to start looking in a certain direction, er, to try and get a
focus on a case er and of course I do a lot of television which is
commentary and not profiling, but er, I enjoy that as well as a good
educational route.
Jim Bohannon: I’m wondering since er apparently a a lot of this
er this focus is, is based in Britain. We tend to think I guess of the
British is almost just quote us. Well, we have a common language and we
have two free societies but there are differences, significant
differences, and I, I understand that the libel laws maybe one area
where there are differences.
Pat Brown: Ooooh...extremely. They’re extremely vicious right now
in Britain which is why er there’s been a lot...pretty much a shut down
of a lot of the media, especially in this case and I’ve had a lot of
letters coming in from, from er people living in er UK and they’re like,
please do, please speak out because we can’t speak out any longer in, in
Britain, it’s just not allowed and they’re very frustrated with the fact
they don’t have that freedom – I think there’s something recently afoot
where they’re trying to ease up on that because they’re getting, it’s
getting to be like a totalitarian society where you can’t say anything,
and while it’s true we may be uncomfortable with what somebody says
about us and certainly I know because I’ve been on the receiving end of
all kinds of interesting commentary, and I, as long as it’s opinion I
have to live with it, I think its people’s right to speak with their
opinion but when you shut down a society and say you can longer say
anything that somebody doesn’t like you’ve got a problem.
Jim Bohannon: What do you put forward in the Profile of the
disappearance of Madeleine McCann, what er conclusions do you reach?
Pat Brown: Well erm, again it’s a theory so I have to start with
that so...
Jim Bohannon: And I understand you’re not at all shy about
pointing that out, it is all theory...
Pat Brown:...I have to point that out ...and it really is er
Jim Bohannon: I mean you weren’t, you weren’t shy about doing it
before you [can’t make this out] isn’t that true?
Pat Brown: Well, the point being that it is a theory and it is my
theory, er, it doesn’t mean it’s a fact, it doesn’t mean it’s true, it
doesn’t mean that’s what happened, it’s a theory of what could have
happened. Er and one of the, the most important thing to be pointed out
right away is that there is no evidence of an abduction and that’s where
the whole thing started to go wrong in people’s minds that maybe we’re
not getting a straight story here, erm, right after Madeleine went
missing er, the...Kate and Gerry called over to England, well actually
Gerry did, and he told a number of relatives that Madeleine had been
abducted and somebody had jemmied the shutters of the window,
essentially crawling in and taking Madeleine away. Well, what turned
out, there was no evidence of anybody coming in that window.
Jim Bohannon: Hmmm...
Pat Brown: And when...and I’ve always wondered you know with the
McCanns said the police did a poor job on this, they were lying about
this, but when Kate wrote her book she admitted there was no evidence of
anybody coming through that window
Jim Bohannon: Then how do they propose that the break-in
occurred?
Pat Brown: Well, now kind of what they, what they’ve set up is
everyday of the week they said they locked the doors to that apartment –
now wouldn’t you, if you’re in an apartment, in a strange country and
you have an apartment that’s on a corner, there’s a road going right
behind it and there’s a carpark behind it...I don’t think you’d leave
the doors unlocked when you’re...well, it’s bad enough that you leave
three children alone so most of us wouldn’t do that either, but would
you leave your three children alone AND leave the doors unlocked so that
anybody could just come in?
Jim Bohannon: Don’t think so
Pat Brown: We wouldn’t think so, well neither did the McCanns so
for four days they locked the doors. The fifth day comes along and they
say they left the sliding door open in the back so that somebody could
go check on their child.. children when they were busy, and that’s never
been done before. So suddenly on the, the last day supposedly someone
else checks on their children.. child.. and the door’s left open. So you
have to wonder is that really what happened or was the place really
locked because if it was locked down then Madeleine was not abducted,
something happened to her in the apartment in an accident that was then
covered up. Er, so you have to have a way for her to get out of that
apartment so you have to have an open door.
Jim Bohannon: What have the authorities had to say? Obviously
they have long since investigated this adding for item.
Pat Brown: er yeah, Detective Amaral believed...he was the one
that believed strongly that Madeleine McCann died in the apartment, they
brought in dogs, er one dog identified decomposition behind the sofa,
which is where Amaral believes Madeleine died, er the other dog found
blood, these are sniffer dogs so this is not something we can see, found
blood in the same location and so Amaral believed that Madeleine had an
accident while they were out at the, at the restaurant. He believes to
this day that they were responsible for what happened to their daughter
and that’s why he wrote the book which got ... you know...they sued him
for.
Jim Bohannon: Uhhmm...but they’re not suing you?... yet.
Pat Brown: Not that I know of.
Jim Bohannon: Not that you know of.
Pat Brown: I have not received a cease and desist notice nor has
anybody approached me on that.
Jim Bohannon: Do you think that you have had a chip on your
shoulder er that you just had it in for err...the McCanns...
Pat Brown: For the McCanns?
Jim Bohannon: Yeah, I mean that’s the gist of this email which
was piteously dropped on me
Pat Brown: Right. Erm, I have a thing for justice. I have a thing
for the truth, and I, as a profiler I’m very bugged by things when I
say, wait a minute, something’s fishy about this, something is
...something seems off here, it seems like the truth is not coming out.
I have spoken up very strongly in certain crimes where I believe that
we’re not getting the full story, and this was one of them, and because
of the... the McCanns had a very high profile they did a lot of media er
appearances, and every time I saw them things rang wrong again. I’m
thinking, why are you saying that? Why are you doing that? So I think if
they hadn’t been in the media so much and I hadn’t been so aware of what
they were saying I wouldn’t have commented so often, so they made
themselves, you know, they put themselves out there and when you do –
just like me, I’m going to get people who have things to say about me.
Jim Bohannon: Well, erm, unfortunately I guess it sort of goes
with the nature of your work that if you don’t like Pat Brown; get in
line.
Pat Brown: Yeah, well, pretty much. Yeah.
Jim Bohannon: I mean, I mean, there, there have to be just by the
nature of what you have done er, a lot of folks who don’t think kindly
of you.
Pat Brown: Well, what will happen is, is... when, when you speak
out ...when you’re outspoken and, and I’ve never been accused of not
being outspoken ....
Jim Bohannon: That’s true
Pat Brown: Er, you know, there are some people who go on
television for example and talk about a case and they’ll be very careful
about it, well this could happen; or that could happen; maybe she did;
maybe she didn’t...and you think: Well, what do you think? Well, when I
talk about a case I’m pretty blunt about what I think. Here’s what the
evidence here is and here’s what I think happened.
Jim Bohannon: Pat Brown our guest, the founder of the
Pat Brown profiling agency online at patbrownprofiling.com...her
profile of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is available at
Barnes & Noble bn.com and also at
smashwords |
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NEWS AUGUST 2011 |
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